Comments on: VFS – Disorganized, Arrogant, Ridiculously Overpriced http://www.artschoolreviews.ca/reviews/vancouver-film-school/classical-animation/disorganized-arrogant-ridiculously-overpriced Read Reviews From Art School Alumni Mon, 29 Aug 2011 04:42:15 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Mike http://www.artschoolreviews.ca/reviews/vancouver-film-school/classical-animation/disorganized-arrogant-ridiculously-overpriced/comment-page-1#comment-1114 Mike Tue, 09 Jun 2009 03:38:07 +0000 http://www.artschoolreviews.ca/?p=2848#comment-1114 Commenting has been disabled for this review. Commenting has been disabled for this review.

]]> By: Tobin http://www.artschoolreviews.ca/reviews/vancouver-film-school/classical-animation/disorganized-arrogant-ridiculously-overpriced/comment-page-1#comment-1113 Tobin Tue, 09 Jun 2009 03:04:52 +0000 http://www.artschoolreviews.ca/?p=2848#comment-1113 "anonymity is the best voice to have in an industry as small as animation" <br />What a sad, paranoid little statement. But I agree. The industry's becoming very small in many ways. This is particularly true of Vancouver, since Disney pulled out. <br />I still wonder why anyone wouldn't want to identify themselves when they're defending VFS. It seems like a win/win situation, unless of course you're lying... <br />Anyway, one has to hang around the studios a long time and kiss a lot of ass before they give you a chance. Then you work on some kiddie show designed to sell toys for a few months before you get laid off when your job gets outsourced. Maybe I just don't have that kind of patience, anymore. For this and other reasons, I'm determined to go it alone. Freelance, competitions, etc. <br />As far as stating my name here, I don't want to work for or with anyone who's going to try to screw me over for anything like $27,000. Obviously, there will be consequences if they do. “anonymity is the best voice to have in an industry as small as animation”

What a sad, paranoid little statement. But I agree. The industry’s becoming very small in many ways. This is particularly true of Vancouver, since Disney pulled out.

I still wonder why anyone wouldn’t want to identify themselves when they’re defending VFS. It seems like a win/win situation, unless of course you’re lying…

Anyway, one has to hang around the studios a long time and kiss a lot of ass before they give you a chance. Then you work on some kiddie show designed to sell toys for a few months before you get laid off when your job gets outsourced. Maybe I just don’t have that kind of patience, anymore. For this and other reasons, I’m determined to go it alone. Freelance, competitions, etc.

As far as stating my name here, I don’t want to work for or with anyone who’s going to try to screw me over for anything like $27,000. Obviously, there will be consequences if they do.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.artschoolreviews.ca/reviews/vancouver-film-school/classical-animation/disorganized-arrogant-ridiculously-overpriced/comment-page-1#comment-1107 Anonymous Mon, 08 Jun 2009 14:35:42 +0000 http://www.artschoolreviews.ca/?p=2848#comment-1107 Also, anonymity is the best voice to have in an industry as small as animation. This is something you will learn the hard way I am guessing. I'm also guessing it wouldn't make much of a difference if anonymous were to identify themselves to you. What are you going to do? <br />You seem to have all of the 'facts' except for the most important one: Bad attitudes get bad results. <br />Good luck with that! Also, anonymity is the best voice to have in an industry as small as animation. This is something you will learn the hard way I am guessing. I’m also guessing it wouldn’t make much of a difference if anonymous were to identify themselves to you. What are you going to do?

You seem to have all of the ‘facts’ except for the most important one: Bad attitudes get bad results.

Good luck with that!

]]> By: A Fellow VFS Grad. http://www.artschoolreviews.ca/reviews/vancouver-film-school/classical-animation/disorganized-arrogant-ridiculously-overpriced/comment-page-1#comment-1082 A Fellow VFS Grad. Fri, 05 Jun 2009 21:59:16 +0000 http://www.artschoolreviews.ca/?p=2848#comment-1082 Well, even if you tried to apply to a studio, now, your odds of getting a job after slandering numerous people would be slim to nil. Hah. <br />Word gets around. There are many, many people out there who think you're crazy and just plain bitter that you're animation jobless, seeing as not having said anything about your immense distaste for the program while you were there, this came out of left field, what, 2 years after you graduated? Why didn't you just drop out after your first 'horrible' animation class and get your precious money back? <br />Your review is diluted due to the fact that your attitude sucks, that's all I'm saying. If it was constructive, great, but it's not. Well, even if you tried to apply to a studio, now, your odds of getting a job after slandering numerous people would be slim to nil. Hah.

Word gets around. There are many, many people out there who think you’re crazy and just plain bitter that you’re animation jobless, seeing as not having said anything about your immense distaste for the program while you were there, this came out of left field, what, 2 years after you graduated? Why didn’t you just drop out after your first ‘horrible’ animation class and get your precious money back?

Your review is diluted due to the fact that your attitude sucks, that’s all I’m saying. If it was constructive, great, but it’s not.

]]> By: Tobin http://www.artschoolreviews.ca/reviews/vancouver-film-school/classical-animation/disorganized-arrogant-ridiculously-overpriced/comment-page-1#comment-1080 Tobin Fri, 05 Jun 2009 17:06:19 +0000 http://www.artschoolreviews.ca/?p=2848#comment-1080 Ah, more name-calling and a lecture about honesty and integrity by someone who doesn't even have the courage to identify themselves. Thanks- we can all use a good laugh now and then. But you're trying to make some very harsh accusations about me when, unless you were in CA65, you can't possibly know what you're talking about. And everyone in my class can tell you that I was at least paying attention the whole year. <br />No, my experiences in the animation classes at VFS don't fill me with warm fuzzies. I was there and very much awake, alert, and attentive every day. And in most of the classes, I did very well as a result. The problem was with the attitude of a handful of teachers. Generally, if someone was currently working in the field and just moon-lighting at VFS, you could tell. <br />We got a few attempts at demonstrations on the dry erase board up until the frog. As soon as the real character animation started, the class demonstrations dried up until the foot-slip on a four-legged walk near the end of the program. That is a very real problem. <br />Animation isn't a fine art that can't be taught or learned. It's a craft that's built on particular principals which can all be demonstrated. The bowing and scraping attitude demonstrated towards the "amazingly talented teachers" is a huge part of the problem. They were all competent in their fields, but several of them in key positions (particularly Peter) couldn't care less about teaching. It wasn't something they had any training in, or something they depended on for their living. I don't care how good they are as draftsmen. I paid a hell of a steep tuition which paid their salaries. When they were in that building, it was their job to teach. Some of them did an amazingly poor job of it and sidestepped the issue by affecting pompous attitude, and they very badly need to get called out. And more importantly, prospective students need to be warned that this sort of thing happens there. They also need to know that, as a private school, VFS has no legal responsibilities to them at all. <br />VFS either needs to limit class size to about 10, and make sure the instructors review the portfolios prospective students submit, or they need to switch to a format of lectures and demonstrations in front of the whole class. This is the bare minimum that needs to change before they're doing a competent job in the program. <br />Trying to cast them as innocent victims and me as bitter and delusional just isn't reflected by the facts. The class sizes keep growing, and the turn-over among staff keeps getting faster and faster. These are very real signs of growing problems that they aren't addressing because VFS is basically after your money. Some of the teachers really try, but a lot of them have really just quit caring. <br />I have decided to concentrate purely on competitions and festivals, and don't even apply to studios, anymore. It is very competitve, back-stabbing, and the jobs usually only last a few months before they're outsourced and everyone gets laid off. So VFS has done as much damage to my life as it can do, and I have nothing left to lose by telling the truth. You can point at me and boo and hiss all you want. Ah, more name-calling and a lecture about honesty and integrity by someone who doesn’t even have the courage to identify themselves. Thanks- we can all use a good laugh now and then. But you’re trying to make some very harsh accusations about me when, unless you were in CA65, you can’t possibly know what you’re talking about. And everyone in my class can tell you that I was at least paying attention the whole year.

No, my experiences in the animation classes at VFS don’t fill me with warm fuzzies. I was there and very much awake, alert, and attentive every day. And in most of the classes, I did very well as a result. The problem was with the attitude of a handful of teachers. Generally, if someone was currently working in the field and just moon-lighting at VFS, you could tell.

We got a few attempts at demonstrations on the dry erase board up until the frog. As soon as the real character animation started, the class demonstrations dried up until the foot-slip on a four-legged walk near the end of the program. That is a very real problem.

Animation isn’t a fine art that can’t be taught or learned. It’s a craft that’s built on particular principals which can all be demonstrated. The bowing and scraping attitude demonstrated towards the “amazingly talented teachers” is a huge part of the problem. They were all competent in their fields, but several of them in key positions (particularly Peter) couldn’t care less about teaching. It wasn’t something they had any training in, or something they depended on for their living. I don’t care how good they are as draftsmen. I paid a hell of a steep tuition which paid their salaries. When they were in that building, it was their job to teach. Some of them did an amazingly poor job of it and sidestepped the issue by affecting pompous attitude, and they very badly need to get called out. And more importantly, prospective students need to be warned that this sort of thing happens there. They also need to know that, as a private school, VFS has no legal responsibilities to them at all.

VFS either needs to limit class size to about 10, and make sure the instructors review the portfolios prospective students submit, or they need to switch to a format of lectures and demonstrations in front of the whole class. This is the bare minimum that needs to change before they’re doing a competent job in the program.

Trying to cast them as innocent victims and me as bitter and delusional just isn’t reflected by the facts. The class sizes keep growing, and the turn-over among staff keeps getting faster and faster. These are very real signs of growing problems that they aren’t addressing because VFS is basically after your money. Some of the teachers really try, but a lot of them have really just quit caring.

I have decided to concentrate purely on competitions and festivals, and don’t even apply to studios, anymore. It is very competitve, back-stabbing, and the jobs usually only last a few months before they’re outsourced and everyone gets laid off. So VFS has done as much damage to my life as it can do, and I have nothing left to lose by telling the truth. You can point at me and boo and hiss all you want.

]]> By: A Fellow VFS Grad. http://www.artschoolreviews.ca/reviews/vancouver-film-school/classical-animation/disorganized-arrogant-ridiculously-overpriced/comment-page-1#comment-1072 A Fellow VFS Grad. Thu, 04 Jun 2009 22:28:36 +0000 http://www.artschoolreviews.ca/?p=2848#comment-1072 Wow! You sound bitter. I believe that before you enroll in a school, it's your job to research where the jobs in your new field are highly concentrated and the probability of getting one of these highly competitive and sought-after jobs, if you live/move to that region after the program. Animation isn't prevalent everywhere, my friend. <br />As with any program, you get what you put into it. In my animation classes at VFS, half the class was always drawn demonstrations - you'd have to be asleep not to see them and grasp anything from them. There's no 'formula' to make things work - you try, listen, draw and see what's not working (off model, no line of action, etc.), and try again until you get it. This is, in a sense, all on you after learning how the instructors approach it. Even in the studios, people reference animation books constantly - they supplement/help solve problems you haven't faced before in a scene, especially if you're new. You can't possibly learn everything there is to know or 'the key' to animation in a year, if such key even existed - and if that's what you expected from the program - and it sounds like it was - you're delusional. <br />Also, it's incredibly inappropriate to 'call out' amazingly talented teachers who work in the industry you're trying to break into - not just here, but on public industry boards, too. How is name-calling relevant to your review? These are people who mark your work - which is easy info to get - and whom you'll later work with (if you're lucky). <br />It's true the school isn't too keen on supporting the dying art form that is classical animation, but it's no fault of the animation teachers. Maybe they don't choose favorites, they just avoid people with unhealthy attitudes who are unwilling to try. It looks like you were very closed-minded about your time there and it all just bounced off of you like a brick wall. It's not a magical job-getting diploma. Wow! You sound bitter. I believe that before you enroll in a school, it’s your job to research where the jobs in your new field are highly concentrated and the probability of getting one of these highly competitive and sought-after jobs, if you live/move to that region after the program. Animation isn’t prevalent everywhere, my friend.

As with any program, you get what you put into it. In my animation classes at VFS, half the class was always drawn demonstrations – you’d have to be asleep not to see them and grasp anything from them. There’s no ‘formula’ to make things work – you try, listen, draw and see what’s not working (off model, no line of action, etc.), and try again until you get it. This is, in a sense, all on you after learning how the instructors approach it. Even in the studios, people reference animation books constantly – they supplement/help solve problems you haven’t faced before in a scene, especially if you’re new. You can’t possibly learn everything there is to know or ‘the key’ to animation in a year, if such key even existed – and if that’s what you expected from the program – and it sounds like it was – you’re delusional.

Also, it’s incredibly inappropriate to ‘call out’ amazingly talented teachers who work in the industry you’re trying to break into – not just here, but on public industry boards, too. How is name-calling relevant to your review? These are people who mark your work – which is easy info to get – and whom you’ll later work with (if you’re lucky).

It’s true the school isn’t too keen on supporting the dying art form that is classical animation, but it’s no fault of the animation teachers. Maybe they don’t choose favorites, they just avoid people with unhealthy attitudes who are unwilling to try. It looks like you were very closed-minded about your time there and it all just bounced off of you like a brick wall. It’s not a magical job-getting diploma.

]]> By: Tobin http://www.artschoolreviews.ca/reviews/vancouver-film-school/classical-animation/disorganized-arrogant-ridiculously-overpriced/comment-page-1#comment-1070 Tobin Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:49:54 +0000 http://www.artschoolreviews.ca/?p=2848#comment-1070 How about "manning up" and identifying yourself? <br />I learned everything I could from the teachers who actually taught their subject. And at least two of the good ones aren't at VFS, anymore. Department heads and faculty have an extremely high turn-over, there. <br />I am moving on, but VFS is still taking people's money and letting some pretty unqualified 'teachers' make purely subjective decisions about who they feel like teaching. The "tools" I was supposed to be taking advantage of were outdated, and broken down half the time. <br />This site is about holding Vancouver schools accountable for their actions, for better or worse. In the case of VFS, this is long overdue in my opinion. There is a LOT about that place that the admissions department will not tell you, and $27,000 (probably more by now) is one hell of a lot of money! <br />What I said is the truth. You don't have to like it. How about “manning up” and identifying yourself?

I learned everything I could from the teachers who actually taught their subject. And at least two of the good ones aren’t at VFS, anymore. Department heads and faculty have an extremely high turn-over, there.

I am moving on, but VFS is still taking people’s money and letting some pretty unqualified ‘teachers’ make purely subjective decisions about who they feel like teaching. The “tools” I was supposed to be taking advantage of were outdated, and broken down half the time.

This site is about holding Vancouver schools accountable for their actions, for better or worse. In the case of VFS, this is long overdue in my opinion. There is a LOT about that place that the admissions department will not tell you, and $27,000 (probably more by now) is one hell of a lot of money!

What I said is the truth. You don’t have to like it.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.artschoolreviews.ca/reviews/vancouver-film-school/classical-animation/disorganized-arrogant-ridiculously-overpriced/comment-page-1#comment-1069 Anonymous Thu, 04 Jun 2009 14:50:29 +0000 http://www.artschoolreviews.ca/?p=2848#comment-1069 If you came to VFS thinking everyone was going to stroke your ego, you were sadly mistaken. Blaming your ineptitude on everyone & everything around you will definitely get you a back seat in any career field you choose. How about manning up and accepting the fact that you didn't take advantage of the situation and tools you were given & move on? If you came to VFS thinking everyone was going to stroke your ego, you were sadly mistaken. Blaming your ineptitude on everyone & everything around you will definitely get you a back seat in any career field you choose.

How about manning up and accepting the fact that you didn’t take advantage of the situation and tools you were given & move on?

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